Mistress Kiko is a Japanese Dominatrix and uses bondage as a tool for her clients during sessions.

Wicked Wren [00:00:24] Hello and welcome to the Shibari Study podcast. I'm your host Wicked Wren. And today I have on Mistress Kiko. How are you?

Mistress Kiko [00:00:32] Good. How are you?

Wicked Wren [00:00:33] I am amazing. So you are a pro domme living in Los Angeles, correct?

Mistress Kiko [00:00:39] Yes.

Wicked Wren [00:00:39] How did you get started being a pro domme?

Mistress Kiko [00:00:42] I started in Japan. I walked into a café. I was interested in wearing an outfit and I wanted to hear about it. And I walked in and it was like, you know, it was like a house.

Wicked Wren [00:00:59] Yeah.

Mistress Kiko [00:01:00] And they were like, Well, you need to learn (…) if you want to work here. And then they gave me a list of stuff they do at those places. And I was like, No, no, no, no. I don't want to do that. Like, they were like telling me there's face sitting. And I was like, Okay, no, thank you. I don't want to do that. And then I don't know. And then after that, they're like, You should experience the other side. And I experienced it with the, you know, the owners there. And I was like, okay, I'm not working. But then, I don't know, one day I was like, I really want to understand the psychology of this. It felt very interesting. So I got really into it.

Wicked Wren [00:01:51] Gotcha. Do you think you figured out the psychology of it a little bit better over time?

Mistress Kiko [00:01:56] Um, I think I have more understanding about it.

Wicked Wren [00:02:00]  And is it you wanted to figure out why people wanted to participate in bondage?

Mistress Kiko [00:02:05]  And there's all kinds of (…), right? And bondage, I understand because I already had that taught to myself. But the other stuff was very mysterious to me. So I really wanted to understand everything.

Wicked Wren [00:02:22] What was the most mysterious?

Mistress Kiko [00:02:25] There were so many different people that I've met. For example, people who want to be stepped on with a heel. I didn't understand why they would enjoy that. Tell them that they're just a piece of trash and why people would be turned on by that, you know.

Wicked Wren [00:02:43] Do you think you understand why people want to be (…) and stepped on now?

Mistress Kiko [00:02:48] I don't know. I just feel a lot of the times, they're childhood experiences, and they want to relive it, you know?

Wicked Wren [00:02:59] So did you have issues with doing more (…) in the beginning?

Mistress Kiko [00:03:06] No, not really.

Wicked Wren [00:03:09] That's too fun. So you were just like, I don't understand this but I'm still going to do it and have fun with it.

Mistress Kiko [00:03:14] Yeah.

Wicked Wren [00:03:14] That's so funny. And you said that you're into bondage before you went in.

Mistress Kiko [00:03:19] Yeah, I was into – I had always liked the aesthetic of it. When I was a little child, I've seen magazines. So I've always been – but then when I went and saw their performances, that was when I first saw a real girl hanging from the ceiling. I was like, This is what I want to do.

Wicked Wren [00:03:46] And when you saw that, did you want to be the person being tied or you wanted to tie?

Mistress Kiko [00:03:50] I wanted to tie.

Wicked Wren [00:03:52] Who did you study with?

Mistress Kiko [00:03:54] I studied a long time ago. I think it was more when I first started. The tie I learned was kind of more similar to, you know, Naraki style. And everything was tied off with one. There was no connecting and... But I think it wasn't locked either. So back then, it was more dangerous. And then the modern style came in. I learned some modern style. Kazami Ranki taught me. Also Koizumi.

Wicked Wren [00:04:32] Yeah. What was the change in your career where you started learning the modern style?

Mistress Kiko [00:04:39] I think it was, it started changing, I mean, I took a little break and then when I went back into the scene, that was maybe around 13, 14 years ago. People were already doing, really caring about and thinking about aftercare. And modern tying has become so big. So that's when I really started learning.

Wicked Wren [00:05:15] That makes sense.

Mistress Kiko [00:05:16] Yeah.

Wicked Wren [00:05:16] So you felt in that break period, there's a big change?

Mistress Kiko [00:05:20] Yeah. I mean, there was more change. I think in Japan, people didn't really teach, so. When I first started, they taught me the basics. But it was more about the speed of the tie. They taught me how to get a gote done within 20, 30 seconds, at the most.

Wicked Wren [00:05:39] That is wild.

Mistress Kiko [00:05:41] Yeah. Yeah, but people didn't care about the subject getting injured. Back then when I first started, if you're injured, you're injured.

Wicked Wren [00:05:52] Yeah, it's just kind of a part of it.

Mistress Kiko [00:05:53] Yeah, kind of part of it. But now after that, you know, the modern tying coming in. People started caring about the safety and the aftercare.

Wicked Wren [00:06:06] What are some things that you use in your sessions rope-wise, that maybe you weren't taught and you learn just from having to tie so many different bodies and things like that?

Mistress Kiko [00:06:19] Like rope technique-wise or?

Wicked Wren [00:06:21] Yeah, a lot of rope bondage is set up to tie women.

Mistress Kiko [00:06:25] Mm-hmm.

Wicked Wren [00:06:25] But you tie a lot of men in your session.

Mistress Kiko [00:06:27] Yeah, it's completely different. It's completely different. So I tie men so much that I kind of realize like, Oh, like you don't realize how light girls are and how flexible. It's completely different. Yeah. So one time I was like. Tying a girl after I haven't tied girls for so long. And she went up to a ceiling with one hand. You know, it's just completely different. Whereas the guys that come see me, they're all over six feet tall and they weigh over, you know, about 200 pounds. 160 at the lightest. So.

Wicked Wren [00:07:15] Wow. And how have you adapted some of your knowledge to tie different bodies?

Mistress Kiko [00:07:23] A lot of hands down for guys because a lot of guys can't stay in that TK position for a long time.

Wicked Wren [00:07:30] That makes sense.

Mistress Kiko [00:07:31] Yeah. Or I'll do, you know, hands split a little bit, you know?

Wicked Wren [00:07:38] You're saying that there's a weight discrepancy between you and the client. When you're suspending them, how or what are some tips on how you get them off the ground when they're so much heavier than you are?

Mistress Kiko [00:07:52] I mean, I wouldn't, I don't do a lot of the... I would mummy them and then suddenly lift them up. And of course, you know, I wouldn't to be able to do that. I'll just lift them one by one like, you know, the torso and then the leg or the hip or, you know.

Wicked Wren [00:08:09] Definitely. What role does rope play in your sessions currently? Like, you're not doing a lot of suspensions, is it? A lot of partials maybe? Or?

Mistress Kiko [00:08:17] Yeah, partials are actually easier. Recently, I have, if I'm traveling, I've stopped carrying my suspension frame unless I get a request to. Before I used to but it was so much work.

Wicked Wren [00:08:33] That seems like a real pain.

Mistress Kiko [00:08:36] Like I used to ship them over to each city and, and set it up. But, I mean, I realize most people don't really care about it as much.

Wicked Wren [00:08:46] That makes sense.

Mistress Kiko [00:08:47] So but I do partial more because then I could do things to them for a longer period of time. If I do full suspension, obviously they can stay up there for a long time.

Wicked Wren [00:09:04] Do you find that a lot of your clients that are maybe new think that they have an idea that they want to get suspended and stuff like that, and then once they do it, they're like, Oh, this actually isn't what I want.

Mistress Kiko [00:09:17] Yes, they all want to try. A lot of people wants to try. And then they realize, like I mean, I can't spend hours, you know, unless I do like a lot of, you know, rope to them, then they're okay. But they realize it's harder to stay there.

Wicked Wren [00:09:38] Absolutely. Well, you brought up a great point where when you're in a partial, you can actually connect and play with the person. I like being put in a partial when I'm bottoming way more.

Mistress Kiko [00:09:47] Yeah.

Wicked Wren [00:09:48] You know.

Mistress Kiko [00:09:49] I think a lot of people do.

Wicked Wren [00:09:50] And I think that they're more cruel a lot of the times.

Mistress Kiko [00:09:54] Yeah. And so it's not as uncomfortable too. But it can be pretty cruel, too.

Wicked Wren [00:10:03] Definitely. Do you think about the flow of the session in your time period that you have with the person. Maybe like a beginning, a middle and end? Do you construct them in that way?

Mistress Kiko [00:10:16] I actually never think about my sessions until it starts, and then I just go with the flow.

Wicked Wren [00:10:22] Have you always been like that?

Mistress Kiko [00:10:23] I've always been like that. Well, unless it's like a whole roleplay scene where I have a lot of people coming in, like multiple people. Then I'll think about how I would do it. But other than that, if it's a one-on-one, I actually do what I feel that day.

Wicked Wren [00:10:44] That makes sense.

Mistress Kiko [00:10:44] Yeah.

Wicked Wren [00:10:46] You were telling me that you do a lot of bondage in your sessions is not only rope. You have a session coming up where someone's going to be in a 48-hour sleep sock, correct?

Mistress Kiko [00:10:57] Yes. Not just a sleep sock. We do bondage, too. He also loves metal cuffs.

Wicked Wren [00:11:06] Gotcha.

Mistress Kiko [00:11:06] Just the idea of being chained up and never allowed to get out. Yeah.

Wicked Wren [00:11:12] And for 48 hours. How does that work logistically?

Mistress Kiko [00:11:16] It's more of a psychological experience where he's tied down like mummified with rope. And then we'll change the scene here and there, but sometimes in a sleep sack, sometimes in a chain, he's buckled down. So it's just a verbal thing where psychologically we do this whole role-play scenario where he just feels like he's never going to get out of the scene. And these girls come in and everybody, they just use him for whatever they want and he's fully hooded so he can't see anything.

Wicked Wren [00:12:05] That was my next question. Is he fully hooded for 48 hours?

Mistress Kiko [00:12:08] Yes.

Wicked Wren [00:12:09] Wow.

Mistress Kiko [00:12:09] Yeah.

Wicked Wren [00:12:10] That has to be wild.

Mistress Kiko [00:12:13] With almost no sleep. Maybe 2 hours here and there, But it's more of a psychological thing, I think. To experience.

Wicked Wren [00:12:26] You talk about the psychological aspects a lot.

Mistress Kiko [00:12:29] Yeah. For that, it's more like, you know, something that normally wouldn't happen. Like he's locked up and he's not never going to get out. He's a prisoner. He's just tied down and just used for whatever anyone wants to use him. And he's never able to eat human food and ...

Wicked Wren [00:12:58] Definitely.

Mistress Kiko [00:12:59] Yeah. And never be able to see the sunlight.

Wicked Wren [00:13:02] So after you come out of the 48-hour mummification. What are some of the first things that you two talk about? What were some things that he said to you?

Mistress Kiko [00:13:15] We talk about it after we leave. So he goes... After he finishes, he goes to the mountains.

Wicked Wren [00:13:24] Okay.

Mistress Kiko [00:13:25] He's totally out of it now. He hasn't had almost no sleep and he's mentally out of it. But usually, he goes to mountains and then just, you know, relax.

Wicked Wren [00:13:37] And what are some things that he says about the sessions to you after? Does he say anything about the session to you after?

Mistress Kiko [00:13:48] Actually, not really. No, not really. But I've seen him many times.

Wicked Wren [00:13:53] Yeah. That's suprising.

Mistress Kiko [00:13:56] I just want to destroy him completely. That's my goal.

Wicked Wren [00:14:02] What about previous sessions, then?

Mistress Kiko [00:14:04] The previous session, we do the same thing. But I always like to push his limits.

Wicked Wren [00:14:09] Absolutely.

Mistress Kiko [00:14:10] And make it harder and harder on him.

Wicked Wren [00:14:12] What are some things that scare him?

Mistress Kiko [00:14:15] I think what scares him the most is abandonment. You know, being in that place in the dark.

Wicked Wren [00:14:22] Yeah.

Mistress Kiko [00:14:22] And feeling that there was nobody there.

Wicked Wren [00:14:26] How do you play with the abandonment?

Mistress Kiko [00:14:29] I mean, if he doesn't hear any sound, he'll just start freaking out.

Wicked Wren [00:14:34] And do you purposefully let him get there? A couple of times.

Mistress Kiko [00:14:39] Yeah. Yeah. But I enjoy pushing more. So this time we're trying to feed him dog food throughout the whole time. Whereas last time he ate normal food, right?

Wicked Wren [00:14:52] Yeah. Yeah. Is there going to be kibble, like hard-dried dog food.

Mistress Kiko [00:14:56] Canned food.

Wicked Wren [00:14:57] Canned food. So at least, it's soft. You know, it sounds like you like to push people.

Mistress Kiko [00:15:01] I do. I enjoy it.

Wicked Wren [00:15:03] Yeah. Have you always been like that?

Mistress Kiko [00:15:06] Yeah. I like to challenge, you know. Every session, I want to do more. Yeah, I don't know I get greedy.

Wicked Wren [00:15:15] Absolutely.

Mistress Kiko [00:15:17] Yeah.

Wicked Wren [00:15:18] What are some things that come up in sessions that really excite you?

Mistress Kiko [00:15:22] Excite me?

Wicked Wren [00:15:22] Like the perfect client that could come in and say, This is what I want to do? What would that person say?

Mistress Kiko [00:15:28] I'll do anything you want.

Wicked Wren [00:15:29] Okay.

Mistress Kiko [00:15:30] Yeah. I want to always make it beautiful. But session, it's more about, you know, how that person is experience, what they're experiencing. So I would speed up on purpose or I would slow down. But like, even this time, I wouldn't exactly do a proper tie sometimes. Just the feeling on top of a proper tie, like, you know, just to combine it. Like, they'll feel that they're inescapable. But like, you know, sometimes if there's, like, changes of speed, you know? Their feelings change.

Wicked Wren [00:16:07] So you'll tie something functional and then on top of it, just kind of put rope on it just to add some emotion to it.

Mistress Kiko [00:16:13] Yeah, I just do it because I think when you're tied up, you don't really, you're not really looking at it and making sure it look so beautiful, you know? So I do the basics, but then you want to feel the feeling, right? So there's like a pause, like the speed changes, the tightness, you know?

Wicked Wren [00:16:33] Absolutely.

Mistress Kiko [00:16:34] Yeah.

Wicked Wren [00:16:35] Yeah. I feel like that's something that people forget a lot.

Mistress Kiko [00:16:38] Like when they're breathing, you know, and then you suddenly change it. You know, you feel something different. So I kind of like to play with that if we're doing a whole bondage scene.

Wicked Wren [00:16:50] Did that take you a long time to figure out? Was that always pretty natural for you?

Mistress Kiko [00:16:56] I just do what I would like, you know? I mean, I think it's more, I think it was kind of... Now, I don't know if they like it, but so if it's a heavy bondage-based session. I would focus on more the, you know, emotional part of it. I mean, I'll do the technical part, but I'm not really focused on, you know, how it's going to look with the photographs. Yeah.

Wicked Wren [00:17:23] Thank you, Mistress Kiko for being on. This is amazing.

Unidentified [00:17:26] And thank you for having me.